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JBA equal lenght shorty headers - Just Don't!!
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)Posted by: OldFart
Now that I have invested considerable time and money on the installation of JBA equal length shorty headers and metalic substrate cats, I sure wish I had spent the money on a new BBK or CMA throttle body, or charge motion deletes, or anything other than these headers. Here's why:
1. They were an unqualified pain in the *ss to install. Disconnect the steering linkage, remove the starter, remove the battery and battery box, remove the filter box and intake pipe, disconnect the engine mounts and jack the engine and tranny up about 1-1/2". This is just so you can get the headers in place to be bolted up and even then it's not easy.
2. The install instructions are a damn lie. They say it's the installers preference to re-use the stock exhaust manifold studs or remove them and use the supplied bolts. It is quite impossible to use the stock studs, since at least two per side run into a header tube and will not allow the header to seat. So don't waste your time trying to re-use the stock studs.
3. Before you even begin trying to fit the headers, drill out the bolt holes to the same size as the stock manifolds. Otherwise you can spend an extra couple of hours per side trying to get the damn headers aligned and bolted up and you may never succeed - I didn't. Once I drilled out the bolt holes it was actually possible to get the bolts in.
4. The worst - on the passenger side, one of the tubes ends up being less than 1/4" from the frame. Now every time I turn a hard left the damn tube rubs the frame and makes noise. So the only option (other than changing them out for something else) is to spend another $400.00 replacing the soft stock engine mounts with Steeda mounts which should keep the engine in place.
5. Should have wrapped the entire header with heat tape. There is so much more heat under the hood from these headers that I'm concerned it may negate any potential gains. I won't know for sure until I get it dynoed.
The only good thing I can say is the exhaust sounds great. But that is not enough to justify the cost, time, frustration and even more money I'll spend keeping these pieces of crap from rubbing the frame.
DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY LIKE I HAVE!!! If you're going to do headers, spend the extra money for good long-tubes and wrap them with heat tape before the install. Whatever you do DON'T BUY JBA EQUAL LENGTH SHORTY HEADERS, they really bite.
OldFart
Posted by: Donna
Thanks for the heads up
Posted by: traffic142
I have read that for the most part (short of going with a turbo/blower) the stock headers are not that bad and do a good job. I have read that just changing to a x-pipe, hi flow cats and exhaust do wonders in the HP department. MMFF is doing a study with headers and x pipes in this months issue (have not seen it). My 06 is due in the end of this month. I have spent some $$$$ so far on exterior mods ( shelby stripes, ducktail spoiler, chin spoiler and flowmasters). I want the car to get broke in before I flash the computer and put a CAI. I may spend to get a x-pipe and hi flow cats in the interim.
Side note, Donna,
Looks like my car is also scheduled to be made the same week. I am in NC (on the coast). Did you not like your V-6 or did you wished you had a V-8, sorry it sounded corny.
Posted by: Donna
I love my V6. I ordered it last year before pricing was released and did not get some options that I really wanted for fear of pricing myself out of the car. My son graduated this year and got his own car and his own insurance = more $$ in my pocket. I decided that now was probably the best time to sell it, and get what I really wanted to begin with. You only live once. My car is a great deal for someone. I just need to find them.
Posted by: Mac
I've not heard too much bad about the whole exhaust system from Ford, unless you are going turbo or SC. I went with the Flowmasters (any of the others would have worked as well). I spend 400 miles a week on the interstate doing 2200 rpm. The tests done by MMFF showed about a 25 hp gain right where I need it. I also went with the C & L cold air intake & Diablo Preditor, had it re-tuned (dyno) to run '87' octane. Gained about 50 hp & 50 ft-lbs at 3400 rpm. Money can be best spent else where than headers. Still getting over 26 mpg (taking it easy).
Mac
Posted by: WhitePony4.6
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OldFart
Now that I have invested considerable time and money on the installation of JBA equal length shorty headers and metalic substrate cats, I sure wish I had spent the money on a new BBK or CMA throttle body, or charge motion deletes, or anything other than these headers. Here's why:
1. They were an unqualified pain in the *ss to install. Disconnect the steering linkage, remove the starter, remove the battery and battery box, remove the filter box and intake pipe, disconnect the engine mounts and jack the engine and tranny up about 1-1/2". This is just so you can get the headers in place to be bolted up and even then it's not easy. 2. The install instructions are a damn lie. They say it's the installers preference to re-use the stock exhaust manifold studs or remove them and use the supplied bolts. It is quite impossible to use the stock studs, since at least two per side run into a header tube and will not allow the header to seat. So don't waste your time trying to re-use the stock studs. 3. Before you even begin trying to fit the headers, drill out the bolt holes to the same size as the stock manifolds. Otherwise you can spend an extra couple of hours per side trying to get the damn headers aligned and bolted up and you may never succeed - I didn't. Once I drilled out the bolt holes it was actually possible to get the bolts in. 4. The worst - on the passenger side, one of the tubes ends up being less than 1/4" from the frame. Now every time I turn a hard left the damn tube rubs the frame and makes noise. So the only option (other than changing them out for something else) is to spend another $400.00 replacing the soft stock engine mounts with Steeda mounts which should keep the engine in place. 5. Should have wrapped the entire header with heat tape. There is so much more heat under the hood from these headers that I'm concerned it may negate any potential gains. I won't know for sure until I get it dynoed. The only good thing I can say is the exhaust sounds great. But that is not enough to justify the cost, time, frustration and even more money I'll spend keeping these pieces of crap from rubbing the frame. DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY LIKE I HAVE!!! If you're going to do headers, spend the extra money for good long-tubes and wrap them with heat tape before the install. Whatever you do DON'T BUY JBA EQUAL LENGTH SHORTY HEADERS, they really bite. OldFart |
Posted by: zstang
OldFart, did you end up getting some long-tube headers, or did you stick with the shorts since you had them in?
Anyone else get any long-tubes, and if so, what brand and what was installation like?
Posted by: OldFart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zstang
OldFart, did you end up getting some long-tube headers, or did you stick with the shorts since you had them in?
Anyone else get any long-tubes, and if so, what brand and what was installation like? |
But I will say this - I had the car dyno tuned about a week ago. Ambient conditions were not good - about 89 degrees and 85 percent humidity. The horsepower was only a little better, peaking at around 4,200 rpm at 301. However the torque was really impressive - an elevator starting at around 2,600 rpm it was up to 298 ft/lbs by 3,000 rpm and then makes a slight curve above 300 ft/lbs and pretty much stays there to the rev limiter. Since I intend to open track the car, a high flat torque curve is just what I was looking for.
I replaced the stock engine mounts with Prothane mounts (which are considerably less expensive than the Steeda mounts and work just fine) and cured the header tube from rubbing the frame. With the added benefit of the engine not swaying around all over the place - the car feels much tighter in a turn now.
As to long tubes, I'm still just wishing I had in the first place. After all, when you consider that I had to buy and install new motor mounts to make them work right - I spent as much as if I had gone ahead and bought long tubes.
But since I actually left blood spots on these headers to get them installed(which are still visible after 2K miles), I'm not in a big hurry to take them off and have a go at long tubes.
And they really do sound good. (but I'm sure long tubes would make more power and probably sound even better.)
Unless I come across a really great deal on long tubes - I'm seriously considering being a low down dirty law breaker and installing "off-road" pipes in place of the aftermarket high-flow, metalic substrate cats that I have on now. (And they wern't cheap either but that's another story.) That should get me back in the power range of long tubes without the hassle and expense of changing these *&^%@@*& headers out yet again.
Live and learn.
OldFart
Posted by: twebster72
This is for Oldfart. I see you have done several mods to the new mustang. What do you think was your best bang for the buck?
Posted by: OldFart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twebster72
This is for Oldfart. I see you have done several mods to the new mustang. What do you think was your best bang for the buck?
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1. A good cold air intake - make sure it has a shroud around the air filter so you aren't sucking in hot air off the engine. This is hands down the best bang for the buck as most people can install this theirselves and not have to pay a shop to install it.
2. Custom tuning - right after installing the CAI to make sure you are still running correct fuel/air ratios. I'm running an AFE Stage II and I'm very happy with it (larger surface area on the filter than anyone but Western Motorsports system). But to my knowledge K&N is the only manufacture who will help enforce your warranty with the dealer if that becomes an issue.
3. After-axle mufflers - the gains here are about the same for every manufacturer, and the install is pretty reasonable. So decide what you want in the way of sound and then post your own thread and get some feedback as to how the different systems sound.
4. Underdrive pully kit - While you get a pretty good return in the way of power per dollar with a pully kit and the engine will wind-up faster, but this is a buyer beware situation. Based upon my own experience, some of the less expensive pully kits are not doing enough to protect the crank from harmful vibration. I very much recommend going with the more expensive, but better in the long run, pully kits. This is an area you don't want to try and save money - buy the good stuff. I haven't tried it, but the Saleen pully looks alot like the ATI Racing pully - hopefully without the bugs that the ATI unit currently has.
5. X-pipe. If you can get away with it in your state, an off-road X-pipe system (no cats) is cheaper than an on-road with high-flow cats and this is a substantial gain over the stock system. So bang per buck is very worthwhile.
6. Throttle body - There are really just two manufactures right now, BBK and another that is marketed as CMA, Moto-Blue, etc. Both are similar being 62 MM. The BBK is less expensive but they have delayed shipping for months. By now they may be shipping and I have a hard time knocking a major manufacturer whose part is less money than a fairly unknown manufacturer. I have the CMA and have been pleased with it, but only bought it out of frustration over BBK's continual delay in shipping.
7. More Custom tuning - you will see good gains for your money if you have the engine re-tuned after every change. Can't say enough about this. You really need to make sure the mods haven't affected the fuel/air ratio's and the tuners will get a little more power each time than if you hadn't tuned. Make sure you tell the tuners what you want or you may end up with a good drag strip tune that doesn't fit well as a daily driver.
8. Gears - I've heard some very good things about changing out the stock 3:55 gears for 3:73 or even lower. I haven't done this myself since the engine is winding so fast now I can barely get the 1st to 2nd shift done before it redlines. But the prices on gears are very reasonable since the 8.8" rear-end in the 05 is the same 8.8" rear-end Ford has used for years.
9. N2O - The HP/$ here is pretty hard to beat. I've already purchased the Zex 05 GT system but haven't installed it since you have to set the tuning back to near stock for it to work properly. Instead, I'm waiting for Sniper to get their latest generation of "flip-chip" done (soon I hope) so I can keep my latest tune for everyday driving and flip to the N20 program when I feel the need for burning up tires.
10. Headers - If you just have to have that little extra horsepower and torque. The gain per dollar is likely the worst as the stock manifolds are pretty good and the cost to install is pretty high. Considering the initial cost, install cost and trouble to install factor, I very much recommend biteing the bullet and going with long tube headers instead of the shorty's I installed.
Those are about all the power adders I'm aware of that you can do without breaking into the engine. (Which I will likely do sometime in the near future. Yep, I've gone completely insane in my quest for the fastest, highest winding 3 valve. I want stiffer valve springs now but I'll likely just hold out for the new ported/polished 3 valve heads.)
Good Luck,
OldFart
Posted by: twebster72
Thanks I printed this out for future reference.
Posted by: StewartRacing39
Thanks for the good info OldFart I went with the Ford Motorsports ceramic coated shortys and I'am Very Satisfied
Posted by: OldFart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by StewartRacing39
Thanks for the good info OldFart I went with the Ford Motorsports ceramic coated shortys and I'am Very Satisfied
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You rarely go wrong with Ford Racing Parts. There were certainly times during (and after) the install of the JBA's that I wished I had.
According to the November 05 Mustangs and Fast Fords header shoot-out article, the JBA's produce only .3 ft/lbs more torque and 1.8 more horsepower than the FRP headers - not enough more torque/horsepower to justify the hassle of the JBA install and the necessity of going to after-market motor mounts.
On an entirely different note, if you've gone to the trouble of headers, you will likely proceed with suspension upgrades. Beware - one thing leads to another and not everyone's parts are worth having. (and it gets expensive very fast.)
I'll soon be on my third set of rear suspension upper & lower arms. I'll be replacing the adjustable panhard rod with a Watts Link (as soon as Lakewood starts shipping them). And I'll soon be on my fourth set of springs. (Nothing really wrong with the springs I'm on now - except I think I can do better.)
My best advice is if you have lowered the rear over 1.4" then you need to avoid the Metco adjustable upper 3rd link like the plague. Nothing but trouble. Instead (and I hate to say it) the Steeda part is the best one out there. (I've tried them all at this point.)
Also avoid the BMR adjustable lowers unless you can stand considerable noise transmission. Their units have Heim joint rod ends at the body connection and bushings on the axle connection. This turns the whole car into a large noisy, resonating tin can. (and it's a bit more difficult to get the pinion angle set and keep the rear-end aligned when you're adjusting each side instead of just the top.)
(But then again you may not share my insanity for handling.)
Good Luck,
OldFart
Posted by: canuck05
oldfart what are you running for control arms and springs now? I too have the ford racing coated stewart any problems with install like oldfart's?
Posted by: OldFart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by canuck05
oldfart what are you running for control arms and springs now? I too have the ford racing coated stewart any problems with install like oldfart's?
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As to springs, I'm currently running a set of custom Canuck Motorsports progressive, with 450 ft.lbs/in fronts and 300 ft.lbs/in rears. They are also acceptable but I feel I can do better.
At the advice of the owner of Blackforest Motorsports (they won a number of races this past year running an FR500C) I'm going to look around for a good coil-over set-up for the rear and then decide what spring rates to use. They are running 750 ft.lbs/in fronts and 450 ft.lbs/in rear, in a car that weighs 700 lbs less than a stock 05 Mustang, but that is a pure track car, not a daily driver that will see occasional track time like mine. (They also spend $6,000.00 for a set of 4 Dynamic Suspensions shocks, and I can't do that either.)
Still trying to get it right.
OldFart
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